3 easy steps to disproving the pre-tribulation rapture theory.

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50 Replies to “Post Tribulation Rapture – Disproving Pre-trib in 3 Steps!”

  1. I will share what someone wrote to me. Here is the background.

    I was actually minding my own business as I was writing a sermon on my fb account. I get this message, from "Satan" who for reason read my sermon and decided to chat with me. One thing he spoke about was that the true rapture of the soul was to take the mark of the 666 (without saying it). This reminded me of his chat with Eve. He said, do not put your hope on this rapture thing but take my mark so that demons will not touch you.

    Now this may sound far fetched and I can assure you I do not need medication but this person or devil did contact me since my messages are Public. This is really quite terrifying the vision he sees for the future.

    The pre-trib rapture teaching is very dangerous indeed. This is my conclusion after my chat with this guy.

  2. just opens up to this in the last year. the Pretrib teaching will cause many too question their faith and fall away. King James Bible
    No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. $$$
    although they praise me with Thier lips, Thier hearts are far from me….

  3. Please ALL pre-Trib believers, PLEASE pray and ask Jesus to reveal the truth behind a pre-tribulation rapture. This is what Lucifer , the angel of light will use to confuse Christians into believing the anti-christ is actually Jesus. Look at scripture for both pre and post, compare them and you will see post trib is biblical while pre trib is just man's logic and ideology. Look at how many Christians are opening their eyes and ears to the truth and stopped following their itchy ears. BeBlessed and I pray Jesus will guide you to the truth of The Day of The Lord.

  4. Pre-trib makes you slack off. Post-trib, makes you prepare and clean yourself. Knowing God's intent for us to be clean and have our robes void of any stains, it is obvious that Pre-trib satisfies man's desire to not get hurt, and post-trib satisfies the Lord's will to be pleased that those who are faithful will suffer in his name, before his return. Should we not suffer like Christ on the cross?? not that it pleases him to allow us to be persecuted, but it pleases him that our faith in him remains even under scoffer's and worldly pains. Will we only praise God when good things happen? when we are taken care of like babies? Or, will we praise God even when he takes away our "blanket of comfort". Remember Job!, he had many things taken away and still praised God. Persecution is like that, our comfort in the world (not experience persecution) will be gone, and we will literally only have our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I am ready. Always pray and be watchful. Be prepared, not paranoid, because if you are paranoid… you are not prepared!

    Amen.

  5. Are
    you trusting in the timing of the rapture to deliver you from the
    tribulation,or are you going to endure with Christ and trust him, in any
    circumstances.

    Matthew 24:29-31King James Version (KJV)
    29 Immediately
    after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the
    moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and
    the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear
    the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of
    the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds
    of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels
    with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his
    elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Mark 13:24-29King James Version (KJV)
    24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
    25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
    26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    27 And
    then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from
    the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost
    part of heaven.

    2 Thessalonians 2King James Version (KJV)
    2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2 That
    ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor
    by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    3 Let
    no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except
    there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the
    son of perdition;

    Revelation 14:14-20King James Version (KJV)
    14 And
    I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like
    unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a
    sharp sickle.
    15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying
    with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle,
    and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the
    earth is ripe.
    16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
    17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
    18 And
    another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and
    cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust
    in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth;
    for her grapes are fully ripe.
    19 And the angel thrust in his sickle
    into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the
    great winepress of the wrath of God.

    King James Bible
    And
    this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath
    given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the
    last day.

    John 6:40King James Version (KJV)
    40 And this is the
    will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and
    believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at
    the last day.

    John 6:44King James Version (KJV)
    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 6:54King James Version (KJV)
    54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 11:24King James Version (KJV)
    24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

    King James Bible
    For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    King James Bible
    Watch
    ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to
    escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the
    Son of man.

    you will note that the same day Noah went into the
    Ark, the floods came! The same day Lot left Sodom, the fire fell! The
    SAME day, Jesus gathers his elect, the saints, the wrath of God will
    consume the wicked, not 7 years later!

    YOU MUST IGNORE ALL OF GOD WORD TO BE A PRE_TRIBBER NOW I MUST DO WHAT GOD PLACED ON MY HEART

     King James Bible
    And
    whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart
    out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

  6. Scripture always trumps verseless pre-trib opinions.$100 for all pre-tribbers that can post the pre-trib rapture that has the rapture before the tribulation. Remember, I asked for a verse that HAS the rapture before the tribulation, not an opinion about a verse. HUGE difference.*******Make sure you fight not against God. HUGE repercussions.

  7. if the rapture occures at the second coming in Mathew 24 31

    and that lines up with the second coming in Rev 19 11 16 that would mean the post tribbers have the living preceding the dead

    the first reserection happens after the second coming

    the second coming Rev 19 11 16

    the first reserection happens at Rev 20 4

    I hear post tribbers every day say the living can't proceed the dead but yet that's exactly what they are doing is saying the living preceed the dead. Humm what's wrong with this picture?

  8. God showed me the Rapture will take place BEFORE THE tribulation and will be followed by an intermediate period of apostasy.The Tribulation (Day of the Lord) will start when the Sixth Seal is opened Three Years after the Rapture.

  9. Actually, thr Word says in Revelation that Revelation is the perseverance of thr Saints. Also, in 2 Thes. 2, we read that the Gentiles who refused the truth, will receive a delusion from God where they will worship the beast. They will not come to Christ, so we are the ones who will go through the tribuation. If you feel God would not allow this to happen to his children, then He would have to apologize to the early Roman Christians, those killed, tortured and raped by ISIS and others who have died for their faith. it definitely is a post trib rapture.

  10. Dan24 Seventy weeks are determined upon "thy people" (Jews) and upon "thy holy city", (Jerusalem)
    The body of Christ is NOT part of this prophetic timeline, it is nowhere mentioned.
    if your saved under todays gospel 1Corinth 15:1-4 your promised a rapture, not a kingdom to come, but it takes right division to see it.

  11. Since 99 percent of the comments from pretribbers actually come directly or indirectly from a handful of leading pretrib traffickers and money-changers, everyone should Google "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," "Famous Rapture Watchers" (to find out how the greatest Greek NT scholars of all time interpreted pretrib "proof" texts like Rev. 3:10), "Pretrib Rapture Stealth," "Pretrib Rapture: A Staged Event," and "Evangelicals Use Occult Deception."

  12. Anyone wish to learn how to spot post-trib fables like this one, come to my channel! I have videos that will teach you! This 2 minute video is easily debunked. The "rapture" is NEVER referred to as the "Day of the Lord"! It IS about the "Second coming". Why didn't you read the next verse post-tribber? (Paraphrased) For when they shall say, Peace and safety destruction cometh upon them, and they shall not escape. Who are "they" and what are they "escaping" from? They = the "lost" or "unsaved". And what they won't escape is the tribulation or more accurately "Jacob's trouble". The "Day of the Lord" NEVER refers to the rapture!
    Joel 2:31, Isaiah 13:9-10, and Matthew 24:29, all three are about the second coming, not the rapture. 1 Corinthians 15:51 reveals the rapture for the very first time by saying "Behold, I shew you a mystery". "Mystery" being something unknown until now. And that mystery is the rapture. This was a letter written to Corinth around 50-55AD. The words Jesus said in Matthew were written BEFORE 30AD! The rapture was unknown when Jesus was alive! Joel and Isaiah are much older so the rapture was definitely unknown!
    1 Thes 4:16 and Matt 24:29. Thessalonians says "trump" which means "voice of God". Matthew says "Great sound of a TRUMPET". Thes is the voice of God, Matt is a regular trumpet. Big difference!!!
    Skydiver626, you would do well to take this video down! You're deceiving people with this gross mis-interpretation of scriptures.

  13. when and where does the beama seat judgement take place?

    When and where does the wedding take place?

    and how does the earth get repopulated if it's a post trib rapture?

    if you can't answer those 3 questions with scripture your following false doctrine. A pre trib rapture can answer all 3 questions.

  14. Since you do not believe in a pre trib rapture of the church please explain the following that are listed in our Bible:
    1) When is the body of Christ standing before Christ at the judgement seat of Christ to get their rewards.
    2) Why would a loving Groom force his Bride to be subjected to the most horrid tribulation that has ever been on earth.
    3) Who is the 7 year tribulation supposed to punish the Jewish nation for unbelief and/or the nations for unbelief?
    4) How the believers are told they will never be overcome yet in the book of rev it plainly says that the Anti Christ will overcome the saints?

    I pray that your stay on earth during the tribulation is kind to you and your family.

    The hatred of the pre trib rapture is a lie of Satan since the church (body of Yeshua) will displace Satan from his position in heaven and force him to earth mid point in the tribulation. Thus Satan hates the body of Christ more than he hates Israel before he is displaced from Heaven. Then he will go after the nation of Israel with a final vengeance.

  15. I think this is the right concept in terms of non pre trib… I was always pre trib but when you study scripture its more and more like mid trib, the last step when he quote joel is refered to in revelation 6 also which is the 6th seal and after that is when Christ gathers his elect, then the wrath comes for the world after that , which is spoken by Daniel, Christ and john in revelation.. but the one thing we all have in common is he will be back soon for us who believe

  16. "Now there is in store for me a Crown of Righteousness, which the LORD, the Righteous Judge, will award to me ON THAT DAY – and NOT only to me, but to ALL who have longed for His APPEARING." 2Timothy 4:8  –  "And when the Chief Shepherd APPEARS, you will receive a Crown of Glory…." 1Peter 5:4.  The 24 elders in Revelation 4:1-5 HAVE their Crowns & we receive ours when they do theirs.

  17. Disproving post-trib rapture in one step:
    No Christian will survive the tribulation to be alive and remaining for a rapture.
    ALL who dwell on the earth, every nation and people, SHALL worship the beast and take his mark. 
    Post-trib is impossible.

  18. The rapture is not referred to as The Day of the Lord.  If Christ will come like a thief in the night, wouldn't it make more sense that he come before the rapture?  Watch therefore, for you know not what hour the Lord will come.  That describes before everything goes crazy.  It would be hard to believe that at the end of the tribulation when Gods wrath has been poured out and all hell breaks loose that he could come "like a thief in the night" as people would be expecting him.  Not to mention that if he came at the end of the tribulation period and then raptured the saints that very few people would actually be there to rapture because most would have been killed for being a Christian.  A post trib rapture does not leave time for the feast if all Christians are going to be raptured then go straight back to earth for the second coming.  Lot was spared from fire and brimstone, Noah was saved from the flood, why is it so hard to believe that Christ would spare his bride?

  19. The rapture is not the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord starts at the sixth seal. The rapture is before all this starts.

                                           Day of the Lord
    1. When the antichrist does come on the scene after a peace treaty is already in place, the red horse will soon follow. But the beginning of sorrows (first four seals – Rev 6) is not the day of the Lord discussed in the Old Testament. Even though 25% of the world is killed by wars, famine, and plagues (and hell follows the dead), and it is a judgment from God, the day of the Lord judgments are still to come. This time may involve many wars where the really wicked will come to power. The day of the Lord is revenge on the wicked. Daniel 7  “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. 24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom.
    And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones,
    And shall subdue three kings. 25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time. Rev 13 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. The really wicked gain control of the world with the seven heads having the name of blasphemy. The transition starts at the white horse followed soon by the red horse. If the rapture is placed at the first seal of Revelation, then the rapture is not imminent because the 10 kingdoms come first. If you place the rapture before at the start of the 10 kingdoms, allowing the rebuilding of the temple, where is the sudden destruction of the Day of the Lord passage where they do not escape.

    2. 2 Thess 2 1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. There will be great apostasy and the antichrist will be revealed first, then the day of the Lord will occur. 2 Thess 2 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The church is holding all of this back and after true believers are raptured all of this will start.

    3. In Acts 2-16, the apostle Peter quotes Joel 2 (I will pour my Spirit on all flesh – sun becomes black, moon turns red – before the great and terrible day of the Lord) but this was only a partial fulfillment. At the time Peter spoke to the crowd, there were only a few thousand people. And the moon did not turn blood red. This was the start of the early church when the Holy Spirit was poured on them and some of them were to go before kings and governors and the Holy Spirit would be talking for them (Luke 21 – 12). The complete fulfillment of this prophecy is during the 5th and 6th seal in Revelation (Rev 6  9–12) till the seventh bowl judgment (Rev 16-17).  In Mark 13, the Holy Spirit enables tribulation saints (in the end times) to speak words when they are arrested and brought to trial. Mark 13 11 Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit. The great tribulation of these days will be cut short by the sun turning black and the moon turning blood red, starting the Day of the Lord.

    4. Joel 2 28 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. 29 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. 30 I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. 32 And everyone who calls  on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls. Joel 2-31 starts out with the sun darkened and the moon turning to blood. In the book of Revelation, the sun turns dark and the moon turns to blood at the sixth seal (Rev 6-12). The great and terrible day of the Lord may allude to when the Lord open the sixth seal. The next verse talks about deliverance on Mount Zion. In Acts 2 the apostle Peter changed this verse. Acts 2 20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. The great and glorious day of the Lord may allude to when the Lord returns at the seventh trumpet. When Peter quoted Joel 2 at Pentecost, the book of Revelation was not written yet. But Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit and this was intentional. So we have a time period where the sun is darkened and the moon turns blood red as a marker before there is deliverance on Mount Zion. From the book of Revelation, there is quite a bit of time between the sixth seal and the seventh trumpet. The apostle Paul stated that the day of the Lord would be like birth pangs. 1 Thess 5 1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. Birth pangs have an initial first contraction which is the starting time, and the contractions get more severe to an end time. The decision on when the first contraction starts is crucial to determining the start of the Day of the Lord. But at the rapture, the wicked actually gain control of this world and destruction does not come on them suddenly as stated in the rapture passages after the removal of the church. And at the rapture, the sun is not darkened and the moon does not turn to blood. Also, the church is not to look for events that bring peace and safety to the world before the rapture. If that were true, we would have a peace treaty and then sudden destruction. On whom does this destruction come? And then this destruction is like birth pangs where they do not escape but the temple is built and the Passover sacrifice started for 3 ½ years until the abomination of desolation. The start of the Day of the Lord has a better fit at the sixth seal. There are many references to the Day of the Lord in the bible. These are particular days of terrible destruction from God. But the only days mentioned in the tribulation are these 2 days and it joins them with birth pangs. There is no Day of the Lord at the abomination of Desolation. Nor any Day of the Lord when the antichrist confirms a peace treaty.

    5. Rev 6 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? In this passage, it shows that the day of his wrath starts at the sixth seal. Before this the wicked had been killing tribulation saints at the fifth seal. This is at the peak of the martyrdom of the tribulation saints and the when the wicked feel they control the world.

    6. In Daniel 11 we see the tribulation saints after the abomination of desolation, even though they fall, have help to go through the tribulation. Daniel 11 31 And forces[j] shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 34 Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. 35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time. This is the same as in Rev 6 at the great tribulation of the fifth seal and the day of the Lord. Rev 6 says: 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. These two passages place the abomination of desolation first, then the great tribulation, then the sun darkened and moon turning to blood.

    7. The trumpet and bowl judgments get more and more intense until the seventh bowl, which is the day of the 2nd coming of the Lord. This is not to say the wicked stop killing tribulation saints but their labor pains get more and more severe. Scripture says the antichrist will have power over this world for the last 3 ½ years of the tribulation. Daniel 7 21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom. Rev 13 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. But starting at the sixth seal, the destruction on the wicked by judgments slow down this persecution. The trumpet judgments start with 1/3 of the world being affected. At the fifth trumpet, locusts sting the wicked for 5 months and they are not allowed to die, followed by the sixth trumpet judgment of fire and brimstone where 1/3 of the population is killed. By the time of the bowl judgments, the entire world is devastated by each judgment.

    8. 1 Thess 5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. The entire world will literally be darkened when the sun is darkened and the moon is turned blood red. This darkness will be worldwide and come literally like a thief in the night worldwide. 1 Thess 5 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 1 Thess 5 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. The church is not appointed to the wrath of God or the wrath of the antichrist during the 7 year tribulation.

    9. At the sixth seal (Rev 7), there are tribulation saints in heaven before the throne. These people came out of the great tribulation and suffered. That is the reason it says they hungered and were thirsty. Also, God will wipe away every tear from their eye. This is not the rapture. At the rapture, the dead in Christ rise first and meet the Lord in the air. Then we who are still alive will meet them in the air. The rapture will have Christians for 2000 years also. They are not present here. Also these people suffered through the great tribulation and the scriptures say at the rapture we will escape all and stand before the Son of man.

    10. Day of the Lord Passages – Zeph 1 is clearly talking about the end of the Day of the Lord because it starts out with the world being swept away and destroyed like Luke 17. This is when the Lord makes a sudden end of all the wicked. Zeph 1-15 That day is a day of wrath, A day of trouble and distress, A day of devastation and desolation, A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness In Obadiah 1 15-17, this is also the end of the day of the Lord because there is deliverance on mount Zion. This is the second coming. Joel 2 1-32, Isaiah 13 6-13, and Amos 5 18-20 are about the second coming. It is total destruction of the wicked. This part of the day of the Lord is when the sun and moon are darkened. Amos 5 Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD That day will be darkness, not light. Joel 2 – 2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come. Isaiah 13-10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

    11.  In the day of Sodom, Lot’s wife looked back and fell into judgment. In these days, if any of the people disobey God, they will fall into judgment. These days are not like in the church age but everything depends on if a person obeys the Lord or not. In Rev 10 after the sixth trumpet and 1/3 of mankind is destroyed by fire and brimstone, people still do not repent. Then it says: Rev 102 He had a little book open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land, 3 and cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roars .Rev 1010  Then I took the little book out of the angel’s hand and ate it, and it was as sweet as honey in my mouth. But when I had eaten it, my stomach became bitter. In these days, If you seek to save your life, you will lose it
    Also, if the rapture happens at the second coming, all Christians are taken up and if all unbelievers are left on Earth, Jesus destroys all unbelievers so who is left for the sheep and goat judgment? The bible clearly says that the sheep and goat judgment start after the 2nd coming. Mat 25 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. In this judgment at the end of the tribulation, people of the nations will be judged on if they had kindness towards others. The sheep will be the people who populate the world during the millennium.

  20. The feast of First Fruits was symbolic of the Resurrection. But the harvest was divided into three parts. First, there was the sheaf of firstfruits, the earnest or pledge of the greater harvest that would follow. 1 Corin 15-20 “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept”. The main part of the harvest is at the rapture. The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are still alive and remain, will be caught up in the air with them. 1 Corin 15-23 “Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming”.  The last part of the harvest is the gleaning. The gleanings are those tribulation saints and people of Israel who had not heard and believed the Gospel before the rapture of the Church. This is stated in Ruth 2-3. The first group at the second coming is the 144 thousand sealed. Rev 14-4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. The next group in the gleaning at the end of the tribulation will be the martyrs. Rev 20 –4 They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. This is opposite from the rapture. This time the ones alive are first and then the dead in Christ are resurrected. There is no mention of we who are still alive or the dead in Christ for 2000 years. Rev 20 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. The dead in Christ are resurrected when thrones are setup on Earth. At the rapture the dead in Christ rise first. Then we who are alive follow. If at the seventh trumpet we meet the Lord in the air, why are the dead in Christ resurrected when thrones are setup on Earth?. The first resurrection starts 3 days after the crucifixion and ends at the resurrection of martyrs at the second coming

  21. Hello, great conversation about this topic. I like the reasoned & respectful debate. Although l hold to the pre- trib view l like looking at the viewpoints of mid, post trib & pre wrath rapture.

    Can l say that if anyone sees the 24 elders Rev. ch 4 v4 as the redeemed Bride of Christ & there seems to be alot of evidence that they are: then this would support the pre trib view as the church (elders) are clearly in heaven with God before the Lord Jesus breaks the first seal in Rev. ch 6 starting the 7 year tribulation. Dont forget the 7 year tribulation starts when Antichrist signs the 7 year peace treaty or peace confirmation with Israel & other nations Dan. Ch9 v27.

    Also isnt it strange that the church is mentioned numerous times in the first 3 chapters of Revelation. Yet from ch4 onwards to until Jesus returns in ch19 there is no mention of the church or the bride of christ. Ch. 6 to Ch.18 of Revelation cover the 7 year tribulation or Daniel's 70th week. There are references to the 4 horsemen of the
    alocalypse, 144,000 Jewish witnesses, the multitude of martyred tribulation saints, the 2 witnesses, the woman (Israel) & the Dragon
    Ch. 12, the beast, the woman on the beast & Babylon.

    So there are no references, at all referencing the church, the bride of Christ to be found in the text of the book of Revelation covering the entire tribulation period Rev ch. 6 to Rev ch. 18. The evidence supports the view that the
    Church is raptured before the start of the 7 year tribulation.

    This is a fundamental weakness in the mid trib, post trib & pre wrath views. I welcome
    reasoned debate concerning this.

  22. What a lousy video.  You didn't prove anything except your ignorance.  The Day of the Lord is the 7 year period of tribulation.  The rapture comes at "some point" before that 7 year period and it is a surprise to everyone except the saints.  They will know by the conflict in the middle-east that the time is "at hand."  And that time seems to be approaching quickly.  Since the rapture is related to the Jewish Festival of Rosh Hashanah, it will more than likely occur during some future Rosh Hashanah.  Sep. 13-15 of 2015 is a good candidate.

    Truth is important.  Rightly dividing the Word is important.  The pre-trib is not a theory, it is the clear teachings of scripture.  We are not told to look for any of the events that occur during the tribulation period.  We are told it is imminent (as a thief in the night).  If any of the events of the tribulation start then the rapture is no longer imminent.  The 24 elders (men) wearing white robes (redeemed men), wearing crowns (glorified men – victors crown) in Revelation 4 represent the church (which is in heaven).  We are in heaven singing songs of redemption.  It is the marriage feast (Rosh Hashanah).  The gospels talk about the 2nd coming of Christ to reign on earth at the end of the tribulation.  The rapture was a revelation given to Paul and he revealed that mystery in his epistles, whereas John recorded the rapture in the book of Revelation when he suddenly sees the church before the throne with the 24 elders. Matthew 24 is the removal of the tares from the earth; they are taken off the earth (removed by the angels assigned to the harvest) and put into the lake of fire.  The people who have not taken the mark of the beast and who are still alive are believers.  They will repopulate the earth during the millennium and their offspring will be some of the rebels referenced at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ. The only systematic and theological approach is a pre-tribulation position because it is the truth, not a theory.  A truth is provable, a theory is not.  I have a spreadsheet with many scriptural proofs, but those who insist on being punished with the earth-dweller don't care because their "emotional" belief somehow gives them comfort, apparently because they want to be punished along with those whom God calls earth-dwellers (those who have rejected Christ and heaven).  Fortunately for them, Christ will take all Believers at the rapture, even the unscriptural ones.  What an awesome God.

  23. In Revelation 20:4-6 there are only 2 Resurrections spoken of:
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the SECOND DEATH hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    In the above scriptures, these are the Martyrs. John said "this is the first resurrection." John didn't say this is the "second phase of the first resurrection," as pre-tribbers claim.
    If this is the FIRST resurrection, can there be a resurrection before this one? Of course not, unless you want to ADD to the bible which is forbidden!

    The First Resurrection is of the dead in Christ and the Second is after 1000 years. Paul wrote that the Dead in Christ MUST rise FIRST, THEN we who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
    1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
     16 …and the dead in Christ shall RISE FIRST

     17 THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them…
    In Rev. 20:4-5, John sees the souls of Saints who were BEHEADED for refusing the Mark of the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation. John writes that they will rise and reign with Christ for 1000 years and that this is the FIRST RESURRECTION!
    If according to John, the beheaded rise in the FIRST resurrection and Paul said those who are alive and remain are not caught up until AFTER the dead in Christ are resurrected, then this means the catching up or rapture takes place AFTER tribulation!

    Now compare the above with 1 CORINTHIANS 15:20-23:
    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of those who slept.
    21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first-fruits; AFTERWARDS THOSE WHO ARE CHRIST'S AT HIS COMING.

    Notice only one resurrection of the dead in Christ is mentioned here! Which, according to Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 must take place BEFORE we who are alive and remain are "caught up" with them!

    When did Jesus say the dead in Christ would be resurrected?

    John 6:39-40: Jesus said, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up ON THE LAST DAY.

    John 6:44: Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY."

    So if Jesus himself said the dead in Christ will be raised on the LAST DAY, and Paul said we who are alive and remain will not be caught up (raptured) until AFTER the dead are raised, then where does secret pre-trib rapture fit in?

    1 Cor  15:52 – In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    We are changed at the LAST TRUMP and where is this found?

    In REVELATION, the LAST BOOK of the Bible there are 7 trumps and the 7th trump is the LAST ONE and is at the end of the tribulation

  24. I guess the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb" is a lunch snack!  This is so stupid!  The Lord is coming for those who are looking for Him, not for doubters/mockers!!!  The Rapture is not for salvation, it's a Reward for the faithful!
      

  25. Carefully read Matthew 24. Jesus clearly states AFTER the (great v. 21) tribulation, all the elect from the four winds (corners of the earth) and one end of heaven to the other shall be GATHERED. This is the one and only mass resurrection of the righteous – the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:4,5) "and they shall reign with Christ 1,000 years (however long that is)".

  26. Ephesians 2:11-22 ESV

    Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.- One Body in Christ Jew and Gentile !!

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